i'm moving to florida

[ClearSights]

I am personally for the PPACA or "Obamacare" I feel many people don't fully understand it. The mandate does not force everyone to have health care. If you don't have health care and you can afford it, you will have to pay a small fee. But what people don't get is that if you can't afford health care, they will not force the fee upon you. Also, this mandate is needed because in 2014 there will be no more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history. So the mandate is necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance.

And also, we should def like it somewhat because it allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs which causes more competition in the market to drive down prices of drugs.

I feel there are hundreds of uninformed people out there that just hate the bill because it was introduced by Obama.

[GeneTwo]

Don't worry reaper239, what ever is making you feel bad about health care reform, Obamacare will cover it.

[Eviebae]

Once upon a time, There was an invisible hand of the market. In this market everyone was a selfish bastard whose selfish bastardness (gimmee!! gimmee!!) worked to curb everyone else's selfish bastardness (ditto). Nothing ever happened where this broke down or didn't work. Nobody had to pay taxes and everybody was happy, at least those who counted, the end.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

The "it's against the constitution" argument is tired. The Constitution is being pimped. Reaper.. my man, WHICH one is being violated? The 10th? State's rights? IF healthcare was all privatized.. ie, Free Market, who'd be able to afford it? Free market is built on making as much money as possible while maintaining as low overhead as possible. Those who think the Free Market will balance itself out clearly haven't paid attention to the economy in the last 20 years.

While I do agree that states have to right to govern themselves, it is still up to the federal government to take care of the country as a whole and for the greater good. Ie, Civil rights.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Nik,

There's a cat I work with who posted a bunch on stuff on FB when this was passed. I walked over to his cubicle and asked him if he'd really read what it entailed? He hadn't. He actually thought the government was going to take over the HC system. LOL.
Now, the HC we get in the military isn't the best, but i've never really complained because it's free and i'm healthy, my kids and wife are covered too. I've looked at how much an MRI costs you civilians and shhhheee.. i've had at least 5 and getting ready to have another. Wooo!
Anyway, I digress.... My man thought the government was taking over healthcare. sheesh! Drinking the kool-aide

Reaper,
Thanks for bringing this up too dude.

[reaper239]

The "it's against the constitution" argument is tired. The Constitution is being pimped. Reaper.. my man, WHICH one is being violated? The 10th? State's rights? IF healthcare was all privatized.. ie, Free Market, who'd be able to afford it? Free market is built on making as much money as possible while maintaining as low overhead as possible. Those who think the Free Market will balance itself out clearly haven't paid attention to the economy in the last 20 years.

While I do agree that states have to right to govern themselves, it is still up to the federal government to take care of the country as a whole and for the greater good. Ie, Civil rights.

the only thing the past 20 prooves is that a market can't be free with an overly activist goernment. the laws of supply and demand disagree with you, a market, when not manipulated by a government, will naturally balance itself. here's an example: i have 1 widget. the only widget in existence, and it's so good that everyone wants it, and i'm looking to sell. who gets it? in a free market, whoever has the most money, or whoever can give me what i want. in a controlled market, the government can say you can only charge so much for a widget, because it's not fair to the people who don't have one. how is that fir to me? i have something of value and the fed has just told me that i cannot recieve full value for my item. let's switch it. now i have 20,000 widgets. they're good, but only about 20 people are really willing to pay a premium for them. everyne else will buy them, but not for the price i'm asking. so what's the solouton? my prices come down, i sell my widgets and make a profit, just not as much as i wanted. now let's complicate things. i have 20,000 widgets. they're great, and people are actually willing to pay my asking price to get one, but there is a competitor who knows this and also has 20,000 widgets. he charges less than me, and while people may be willing to pay my price, they're not going to since they can get it cheaper from a competitor. so what happens, both of our prices drop util we hit the floor for profit. the answer to the healthcare problem is not more regulation, it's less. something as simple as allowing interstate insurance sales would introduce more competition and drive down prices. more regulation costs more money and makes things more expensive. if you don't believe me, look at cars.

CAFE standards (corporate average fuel economy) regulates the lowest fuel economy the government is willing to allow a class of vehicles to achieve. now you may be thinking, "that's great, higher cafe standards means my tank of gas will go further." and that's true. the problem is that an SUV can only get so many miles to the gallon. the soloution the car companies have to adopt, since they are being forced to achieve rediculous standards in a rediculous amount of time, is to make the cars lighter. what happens when a lighter car gets into an accident? well, let's look at cars over the past 30 years. my father has an 86 ford f150 that has been through the ringer. that thing has been through more accidents, and come out unscathed, than almost any other vehicle i know. cars now? they crumple like empty tin cans. why? they are made of lighter materials to meet cafe standards. this cost lives, and the safety equipment to try and counter this flaw cost more.

[yarri]

the only thing the past 20 prooves is that a market can't be free with an overly activist goernment. the laws of supply and demand disagree with you, a market, when not manipulated by a government, will naturally balance itself. here's an example: i have 1 widget. the only widget in existence, and it's so good that everyone wants it, and i'm looking to sell. who gets it? in a free market, whoever has the most money, or whoever can give me what i want. in a controlled market, the government can say you can only charge so much for a widget, because it's not fair to the people who don't have one. how is that fir to me? i have something of value and the fed has just told me that i cannot recieve full value for my item. let's switch it. now i have 20,000 widgets. they're good, but only about 20 people are really willing to pay a premium for them. everyne else will buy them, but not for the price i'm asking. so what's the solouton? my prices come down, i sell my widgets and make a profit, just not as much as i wanted. now let's complicate things. i have 20,000 widgets. they're great, and people are actually willing to pay my asking price to get one, but there is a competitor who knows this and also has 20,000 widgets. he charges less than me, and while people may be willing to pay my price, they're not going to since they can get it cheaper from a competitor. so what happens, both of our prices drop util we hit the floor for profit. the answer to the healthcare problem is not more regulation, it's less. something as simple as allowing interstate insurance sales would introduce more competition and drive down prices. more regulation costs more money and makes things more expensive. if you don't believe me, look at cars.

CAFE standards (corporate average fuel economy) regulates the lowest fuel economy the government is willing to allow a class of vehicles to achieve. now you may be thinking, "that's great, higher cafe standards means my tank of gas will go further." and that's true. the problem is that an SUV can only get so many miles to the gallon. the soloution the car companies have to adopt, since they are being forced to achieve rediculous standards in a rediculous amount of time, is to make the cars lighter. what happens when a lighter car gets into an accident? well, let's look at cars over the past 30 years. my father has an 86 ford f150 that has been through the ringer. that thing has been through more accidents, and come out unscathed, than almost any other vehicle i know. cars now? they crumple like empty tin cans. why? they are made of lighter materials to meet cafe standards. this cost lives, and the safety equipment to try and counter this flaw cost more.

One of the things that would save a great deal of cost to those with insurance is if the hospitals were allowed to not have to treat anyone that didnt have an ability to pay. That is a HUGE amount of the reason why costs are so high..

[reaper239]

One of the things that would save a great deal of cost to those with insurance is if the hospitals were allowed to not have to treat anyone that didnt have an ability to pay. That is a HUGE amount of the reason why costs are so high..

it won't change with obamacare, except where the cost is initially borne. if you don't have insurance, you're going to be fined, i mean "taxed," right? since the "tax" will most likely be less than most insurance policies, people who can't afford the insurance, or just don't want it, will just pay the fine. then, because they can't be denied coverage on the grounds of preexisting conditions, they'll get insurance when they need it and then drop it when they don't anymore. that means the cost of insurance will necesarrily have to rise to compensate for the insurance jumpers. also, we're being threatend with a "tax" on something we aren't doing, how messed up is that? just saying.