i'm moving to florida

[reaper239]

not starting a healthcare debate- although i wouldn't mind debating the subject of this article- gov rick scott of florida has refused to impliment obamacare in his state.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/20...xpand-medicare

i think obamacare is a terrible way to reform healthcare, and so am strongly considering looking for work down there. here's a question for you though: if a governor sees that the people of his state are against a law, and he feels it would be detrimental to his state to impliment it, is he (or she) within the bounds of his power to refuse to impliment it?

[yarri]

not starting a healthcare debate- although i wouldn't mind debating the subject of this article- gov rick scott of florida has refused to impliment obamacare in his state.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/20...xpand-medicare

i think obamacare is a terrible way to reform healthcare, and so am strongly considering looking for work down there. here's a question for you though: if a governor sees that the people of his state are against a law, and he feels it would be detrimental to his state to impliment it, is he (or she) within the bounds of his power to refuse to impliment it?

I would ask you... How in the intern do we pay for the uninsured?

[reaper239]

wasn't going for the health care angle but, here goes:

cash only doctors
walmart
insurance alternative

there are a lot of alternative options surfacing in the face of the health care "crisis." the health care system has been reforming itself over the last few years, except that obamacare is now prepareing to shut down innovation in the health care industry. plus the truly poor have medicaid/medicare so they really aren't without insurance. any time we've faced some kind of serious problem in this country, the best solutions have always come from the bottom up, and not from the top down, but here we're introducing this massive piece of legislation aimed to fix the problem of people not haveing insurance, when not everyone needs insurance.these articles at the national center for policy analysis and the media research center websites show that the number thrown around for the uninsured is grossly inflated. the problem this legislation attacks is those without insurance, not those who don't have access to health care, which is actually a much smaller number, and a problem that the industry itself has been seeking to rectify. think about it, doctors want to make money, but there are several million people who don't have insurance and don't qualify for aid for one reason or another. that is a large untapped market, if you know how. and people are figuring out how, through all manner of insurance alternatives, cheap care, and dealing with patients directly. what we need is to let the market work out a solution, which it has been doing, and not fix a system with broken legislation.

[yarri]

I'll answer more of this later but I will start out with you are mistaken if you think everyone without insurance gets covered by Medicare/ Medicaid. They have very specific sets of guidelines that very few fall into to receive coverage, the people that pay for the uninsured are you and me and anyone with insurance in the form of higher premiums and dedicables . Right now we are also paying for the illegals as well . What parts of the Obama care plan do you not like other then being told to carry insurance ? Is it the insurance has to allow preexisting condictions like type 1 Juvenal diabedies ? Or kids staying on the insurance of they're parents til age 26 so if god forbid they get sick they don't become one of the uninsured we pay for with 20k plus debt. My BFF who has no insurance just was denied Medicaid and is faced with a 25k bill for cholystitis surgery she's 25 unlike my hospital her parents insurance doesn't as of yet cover kids under 26

[reaper239]

i never said that everyone without insurance is covered by medicare/medicaid. and yes, i don't like that everyone is being told "you must carry insurance." what right do you have to tell me that i must enter into a contract with someone? that's like me telling you that you pay money for an air circulation plant comeing to a city near you. it doesn't make sense does it? telling you that because you are alive, you must enter into a contract with some organization for something that you may not need or want. i also don't like that my taxes will go up by almost $300 per month. you read that right, per month. i already pay enough to this state and the federal government in taxes, thank you very much. not to mention the fact that it really is unconstitutional. and i feel for your friend, i really do, and you can find stories like that all over the place, kind of like how you can find stories of poor destitute people who would be so much better if we were socialists and the government were running everything. except they wouldn't, in countries that are, they aren't, and the fed has been running the post office for over 200 years, and amtrak for over 30, and hasn't managed to get those right yet. federal insurance mandates will only serve to make health care worse in this country. and i would argue that we actually have the best health care in the world. now, that does not preclude us from making it better, but broad sweeping legislation is not, and has never been, the answer. instead we need to focus on developing competing methods of treatment that will make health care cheaper, but also better.

[nikvoodoo]

and i would argue that we actually have the best health care in the world.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

That would be my argument against your argument. The United States lacks in healthcare. As for the basic premise of this thread: He can dispute it all he wants, but if he doesn't want to enforce the law from the Federal government that's illegal. Federal government trumps state law. And at this point all appeals have been heard and it is the law of the land. George Wallace learned the hard way about this sort of thing.

[yarri]

From my point of view its a criminal act when we have young people I mean your age Reaper doing what normal young people do such as snow boarding, skiing, hiking, riding motorcycles . Most of these kids don't have insurance cause they're college kids. They have accidents without insurance and suddenly on top of their massive school loans they have 60 to 100 thousand in debt from injury... That is a criminal act that we don't help our own citizens. We have a twisted every man for himself attitude until its you in the hospital with mounting debt and no way to pay it off.

I told you about my brother right? You know he was the victim of a hit and run on his bike. 60 plus stitches in his face, missing teeth fractures of jaw, hand, fingers (which still have not been addressed) He had no insurance he's going to be paying off the care he got at the hospital for the rest of his life IF he doesn't file bankruptcy. IF he does that you me and anyone with insurance eats the cost. (god bless my mother she paid cash for fixing his teeth so what he has left could be saved and had some added to he could eat. He had no money for that imagine his quality of life if my mother had not been able to help him)

Cash only doctors? Are these doctors suddenly much much cheaper? Doctors pay overhead for their offices, staff, crap to run the office and insurance for themselves, the staff, and the ever popular malpractice insurance. Did I mention further training. Doctors and nurses go to school for life. Its part of the profession and it keeps us up and fresh for the changing technical crap that comes out on a monthly basis..(yep I've been in classes for the last 90 freaking days. I'm tired it shows )

How do you get 300$ per month in raised taxes? Show me cause that's news to me.


You want my suggestion to lower your taxes and insurance premium and deductibles? Have the healthcare community stop treating the uninsured. You have cash or insurance or you don't get treatment.


Also doctors and nurses aren't in it for the money.. I make a good living but I also put up with physical and mental abuses. I seldom sit at work I have constant stress and it takes its toll on my health and family. Doctors have it 100000 x worse. Do you know that many of us contribute our time and services free to the poor. more then half of the nurses I work with right now have done volunteerism work over seas paid for by their own pocketbook. Our doctors as well. The insurance company that runs my hospital has done free dental day. What more do you want?

Please define what truly poor means when qualifying for medicare?

[Luna Guardian]

Is this a good time to point at our Nordic healthcare system?

[yarri]

Like Nik said its now law. If you don't like it work to change it. The status quo isn't working anymore.

[reaper239]

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

That would be my argument against your argument. The United States lacks in healthcare. As for the basic premise of this thread: He can dispute it all he wants, but if he doesn't want to enforce the law from the Federal government that's illegal. Federal government trumps state law. And at this point all appeals have been heard and it is the law of the land. George Wallace learned the hard way about this sort of thing.

you realize that the WHO looks at how progressive your tax system is when making that determination? that's not a list of hte best health care systems, it's a list of the most socialist. look at the grading criteria: fairness in financialcontribution? what's that? the deeper you dig, the more you realize that they could be employing jason in the ER, as long as everyone was getting their heads chopped off equally, they would still have a better health care system than we do, accordig to the WHO. here, people who have the money to get experimental treatments aren't barred from doing so, simply because not everyone can afford it. and when the rich have bought the procedure enough it becomes cheaper andthen more readily available to everyone.

so you're saying we should've just knuckled under king george? i mean, clearly a rebellion must have been illegal under british rule, and yet, because georgey-boy was not treating us the way he should have, we rebelled. did you know that there are several states that have passed laws opting out of unconstitutional federal firearms egulations? in such states, firearms that are manufactured, bought, and kept within the state are exempt from federal firearms regulations. and there's nothing the fed can do, because they have no jurisdiction in intrastate commerce.